Raccoons on Harn

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Targan
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Raccoons on Harn

#1 Post by Targan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:35 pm

Is the inclusion in the CGI Kingdom of Kanday module of raccoons as one of the mammal species living on Ternu Heath an error? If it's not, can anyone (hopefully someone involved in the writing of the module) explain how this seemingly Kamerandian animal ended up being introduced to Harn? The Tesien Godstone perhaps?
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#2 Post by gmkeros » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:50 pm

Well, the Doylist explanation is most likely that the writer lived in a place where raccoons are natural and didn't realize that populations elsewhere have been introduced later.

But yes, the Godstone might be the most likely reason.
Or maybe travelers from Kamerand. Or maybe ancient seafarers of Jarind origin that made their way all the way to Kamerand and back. Or maybe it was Ivinian seafarers that managed to get the similar to how the Vikings managed to reach America, or maybe it was a Harnic equivalent to St. Brendan.

Just throwing out ideas.

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#3 Post by Targan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:57 pm

I'm hoping that one of the writing team will just say it was a mistake and I can ignore it. It's literally a single word mention.
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#4 Post by MDMann » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:01 pm

The same place as the bluebirds at Dover...
It could be worse. There could be beavers.


An error I'd think
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#5 Post by Targan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:04 pm

MDMann wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:01 pm
It could be worse. There could be beavers.
Ummm... there are beavers on Harn, according to the Peran article. But that doesn't concern me, because there are Eurasian beavers on Earth.
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#6 Post by Kara » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:11 pm

Beavers are fine, plenty of those on my Harn as they have not been wiped out yet. In fact beaver pelts form part of the feudal tribute for Bevon Manor (from which most of the PCs originate) as they are rarer in Kaldor.

But whenever there are mentions of non-European flora and fauna I put it down to Godstone/Barasi point activity. In fact as one PC is a hunter and another studies flora, they have started to use these as clues to "other worlds" now they know of these; previously they put it down to the activity of Ilvir and Ivashu.
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#7 Post by Sageryne » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:16 pm

Hi Targan,
I'm hoping that one of the writing team will just say it was a mistake and I can ignore it. It's literally a single word mention.
Given that raccoons are native to North America (Kamerand), I agree, I would assume it was a mistake and that you can safely ignore it. I will mention it to the team and we will delete it from future editions of Kanday. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

By the way, you question took me to Wikipedia...who knew that there are now large populations of raccoons in Germany, Russia and Japan???? All human introduced.

Thanks

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#8 Post by oalajoki » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:39 pm

Are you guys saying there are no koalas on Harn either?!! :cry:

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#9 Post by MDMann » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:28 pm

Just drop bears! I blame the antipodean author's. :?
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#10 Post by gmkeros » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:04 pm

Drop bears on Harn are of course Ivashu.

Oh, maybe there are Piercers on Harn?

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#11 Post by bbailey » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:11 pm

Targan wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:57 pm
I'm hoping that one of the writing team will just say it was a mistake and I can ignore it. It's literally a single word mention.
None of the writers or contributors who worked on Kingdom of Kanday are currently active so I can't say whether or not there was a conscious decision to include raccoons for some reason. My assumption is that there was not. I would certainly consider it an error and ignore it, and don't see any reason you can't either.

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#12 Post by Derfman » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:53 pm

Well, canon has horses introduced to kamarand a few centuries back, so perhaps the racoons were part of the exchange.

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#13 Post by Peter the skald » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:35 am

The point being here that there are no racoons in the UK right but we get snooty if Yanks don't realise this right? Whereas they are pretty clued up that we have elves. 😊
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#14 Post by MDMann » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:02 am

Mostly in Wales... :lol:
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#15 Post by Tempest13 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:05 am

It is silly to assume that all the species have the same ranges (or analogs) as in the real world. Robin intimated pretty strongly that almost ALL of the species in the world originated from travel either through Barasi or Godstones. So introduction of species into otherwise favorable climates and regions is not at all preposterous and in fact very likely.

This assumption that everything must be a direct analog to the real world falls in the face of the preponderance of things that have no real world equivalent. Yes, some verisimilitude is nice to create a baseline, but to much stifles creativity.

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#16 Post by Peter the skald » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:13 am

To be fair, I think there is a film (101 Dalmatians?) explicitly set in UK but with a comedy racoon pair or something.... Which kinda for some represents the worst aspects of cultural ignorance/imperialism of the Us based film industry. Maybe folk are fearful racoons on Ternua heath represent the same thing 😁
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#17 Post by Krazma » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:45 am

I don’t know that I’d consider it cultural ignorance or imperialism that someone didn’t know the natural habitat or range of a particular type of animal. Sometimes, mistakes are just mistakes.

In this case, my guess is that whoever wrote that line was getting their info from a general source that listed raccoons and herons as predators, and never thought about their native ranges.

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#18 Post by Dan L P » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:31 am

For people who would like to know what animals live in Great Britain during midieval times there is a good article on the Internet
https://halldorviking.wordpress.com/201 ... -medieval/
You might check it out.

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#19 Post by pokep » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:29 am

The original text called it the "Kandayan Masked Spineless Hedgehog". It was cut down for space.

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#20 Post by Leitchy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:35 am

Sageryne wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:16 pm
...who knew that there are now large populations of raccoons in Germany, Russia and Japan???? All human introduced.
Just like there are six kinds of feral deer in Australia with populations thought to be in the tens of thousands. :)

Driving home (late at night) from gaming a couple of weeks ago, I had to stop to allow three does to cross the road and leap over a farmer's fence. And last year, same road, same time of night, I stopped to allow a slow old wombat to cross the road. He wasn't in a hurry, but the buck deer on the edge of the road was looking at the wombat in some kind of amazement. Wasn't paying any attention to this noisy beast with shining eyes...just kept staring at the wombat.

I probably sat in the car watching the deer watch the wombat wander back and forth for a minute or two, and when I finally beeped the car's horn, the deer fled in an instant, and the wombat turned around and waddled BACK across the road one more time.

Stupid, but kinda cool. :)
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#21 Post by Rothesay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:42 am

pokep wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:29 am
The original text called it the "Kandayan Masked Spineless Hedgehog".
Ya know, I like this a lot! Maybe it should be corrected to this. :lol:

Serious question though: should this have been a hedgehog all along? Maybe that's the right correction for raccoon.

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#22 Post by Leitchy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:16 am

Possibly even more appropriate is badger...those guys kinda have face masks. And they don't have spines.
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#23 Post by Krazma » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:28 am

Rothesay wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:42 am
Serious question though: should this have been a hedgehog all along? Maybe that's the right correction for raccoon.
The heath is home to foxes, raccoons, minks, and other small mammals. There are several species of turtles and snakes, especially in the dry uplands, but only the Heath Adder is poisonous. Frogs and salamanders are relatively few, their fertility diminished by the acid waters of the bogs, and their numbers checked by constant predation from herons, raccoons, turtles, snakes, and almost anything else that can catch them. The eagle is the king of the birds, a large realm that includes scores of migratory songbirds, wading birds, gamebirds, and shorebirds.
I have no idea whether hedgehogs or badgers prey on frogs and salamanders, but I know that both these sentences work fine without the word "raccoons."

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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#24 Post by Targan » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:53 am

Sageryne wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:16 pm
Given that raccoons are native to North America (Kamerand), I agree, I would assume it was a mistake and that you can safely ignore it.
bbailey wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:11 pm
I would certainly consider it an error and ignore it, and don't see any reason you can't either.
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Re: Raccoons on Harn

#25 Post by Kara » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:29 pm

Krazma wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:28 am
Rothesay wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:42 am
Serious question though: should this have been a hedgehog all along? Maybe that's the right correction for raccoon.
The heath is home to foxes, raccoons, minks, and other small mammals. There are several species of turtles and snakes, especially in the dry uplands, but only the Heath Adder is poisonous. Frogs and salamanders are relatively few, their fertility diminished by the acid waters of the bogs, and their numbers checked by constant predation from herons, raccoons, turtles, snakes, and almost anything else that can catch them. The eagle is the king of the birds, a large realm that includes scores of migratory songbirds, wading birds, gamebirds, and shorebirds.
I have no idea whether hedgehogs or badgers prey on frogs and salamanders, but I know that both these sentences work fine without the word "raccoons."
In that list, mink, turtle and salamander also made me twich as none of those have ever lived in Britain except as recent escapees (and only mink have successfully established themselves). The British Isles have a very poor diversity of fauna compared with the rest of Eurasia and Harn lies far further away from Lythia.

Then I ran Sezaze (part of the excellent Getha fanon) and used the "unusual flower" as the first introduction to barasi points in my campaign. The PCs were puzzled by it and looked for it elsewhere in the area and the flora expert noted it. Later she noted it as they were following a trail that ended in their first passing through a barasi point, which I have as a growing phenomenon.
Thus the Ternu Heath (and other articles that include flora and fauna unknown historically here) could fit as part of this pattern, making them far less jarring to my group's sense of verisimilitude.
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