Is this premise reasonable?

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Is this premise reasonable?

#1 Post by Eder » Sun May 14, 2017 5:13 pm

I am trying to set up a scenario, and I’d like some feedback about how “reasonable” the following premise is.

Sometime between 705TR and 709TR an old knight dies. The knight had been holding two Melderyni manors in fee simple from his liege, as his own forefathers had done for several generations. The late knight leaves behind him only:
a) A slightly younger brother, himself a knight in his early 50s. The brother is unmarried, but has a mistress, a woman from a barbarian tribe on whom he sired some (bastard but acknowledged) daughters.
b) A young daughter (legitimate, from a marriage with a gentleborn wife) born in late 793, who is therefore somewhere between 11 and 16 upon her father’s death. Always something of a tomboy, and the apple in her father’s eye, she had managed to convince him to look for some knight who would take her as a squire. Her father had indeed made some inquiries in this sense just before his death.

Normally, the new clanhead would be chosen as the brother of the late knight, and the late knight’s liege would renew the grant of the two manors to him. Instead, the liege states that he wants to support the wishes of the deceased, who clearly wanted his daughter to succeed him as a knight in her own right, so he assumes wardship of the girl and:
a) he renews the grant of the two manors to her.
b) he arranges for her to squire at some Laranian fighting order, and to be eventually knighted when she turns 21, in late 714.
c) until that time, he asks the same order to manage the two manors for her. The order will pay him a really hefty sum for the privilege (in yearly installments, or perhaps in advance), and will take care of all other issues including feudal payments/service to the liege’s own lord; it can keep any extra revenue for itself.

The idea is that the lord badly needs silver, and wants to squeeze as much of it as he can out of the succession, while still appearing fair and respectful of law and tradition - which prevents him from taking the two manors permanently back, since the late knight and his forefathers had served him well. The order is likely to give him a pretty good deal, in that it would be paying for the upkeep of its own knights (acting as bailiffs and/or providing feudal service) anyway, and in this way it can defray some or all of those expenses; it also gets to educate the young mind of a future manor holder to the tenets of strict Laranianism, which is a not easily quantifiable but very definite plus.

Is this a reasonable premise, in the sense that:
a) the liege really manages to stay (if barely) within the bounds of what is “proper” and
b) there’s no other “proper” solution that provides him with more revenue, at least in the short term and
c) the Laranian order finds this a good enough deal to accept?
Or do you see any problems with this setup - and if so, how would you fix them?

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Re: Is this premise reasonable?

#2 Post by MDMann » Sun May 14, 2017 6:14 pm

This seems a reasonable premise.

Abc all work is think. A couple of thoughts.

The younger brother has some cause for grievance but no real case to call. He's likely to engender some sympathy. The church is likely to buy him off some how if it can, perhaps with a pension or by arranging a (distant) placement.

Ordinarily the church might encourage their young ward to join the church proper. However, since the manors are held in fee simple it won't inherit them if it does. Instead, they're likely to try to arrange suitable matches so that it retains some control once she reaches her majority.

The niece's don't get a look in.
Per Sir Veer.

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Re: Is this premise reasonable?

#3 Post by Derfman » Mon May 15, 2017 4:31 am

Reasonable for the liege, for exactly the reasons stated.
Reasonable for the fighting order, for exactly the reasons stated.
Reasonable in 'tradition and law' in my pHarn.

VERY reasonable for the young female heir ==IF== the manors are not returned in a damaged state when she is 21.
That every penny is squeezed and she gets not a penny until she is 21 is VERY reasonable (except her upkeep costs, which probably do include some pocket money).
....because other VERY possible possibilities are so much worse for her.
The income of her heritage for 5 to 10 years (current age 11 to 16 you said) is SMALL price to pay for keeping that heritage INTACT and owned by HER, and she gets the knighthood she wants in the process.
If she is gracious about it, the church might even count it as double or even triple tithing, so she will be able maybe pay half tithes for a few years once she inherits and only get modest grumbling.

The biggest possible wrench is her uncle and nieces. They could be a non-issue if they are on good terms.

Other possible wrench is how the manors are managed.
If they are simply squeezed for cash in a traditional wardship manner. all is good.
If the manors are squeezed to the point of real damage (starving serfs, stripped of assets), THEN there is a problem, and the heir could probably make a case for damages in court.

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