more magic-rich versions of Harn

Discuss Other RPG Rules Systems or role playing worlds. It doesn't even have to be Hârn-related. Anything goes...d20 (D&D3E), RuneQuest, MERP, GURPS, RoleMaster, Chivalry & Sorcery...even Shadowrun.

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chlodoweg
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more magic-rich versions of Harn

#1 Post by chlodoweg » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:25 am

Hi, new here. I've been reading the threads about using versions of DnD with Harn with curiosity. I've been contemplating adapting The Design Mechanism's "Classic Fantasy" for Harn but wonder how it fares with an increased magic level?

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#2 Post by BrianSmaller » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:43 am

Back in the day we used to play Harn with D&D - like in about 85-86 when the first modules in print appeared in New Zealand. Ah, the barbarians storming Thay. Such memories. It works as well as you want it to work.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#3 Post by Peter the skald » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:27 pm

Well, the magic in kethira is potentially as powerful as anywhere else...interworld travel, summoning elementals, seas of fire etc etc.

Magic using as per hm rules is harder to get into and master..and is controlled by a code that is policed...so casting magic willy billy risky....

But, having an immensely powerful pc mage and nemesis who bend the rules does not tend to upset the apple cart.

Having powerful magic as more stage front with easy access/mastery/larger population would take some thinking/writing, as it makes a new place that is not Harn as written. Gallantri? Was that the name of the wizard realm in old dandd?
Plots and schemes are the same thing..

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#4 Post by CASTLEMIKE1 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:41 pm

I'd just incorporate as non traditional Magic similar to Colubia's Sjari Sorcery:

http://www.columbiagames.com/resources/ ... rdance.pdf

Of course Harn Gold treats every spell as an individual skill so while it has some nice ideas I use HM3 & Sjari.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#5 Post by zrayaan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:10 pm

It really depends on what you mean by "magic rich." I mean, the Council of Eleven created their own kamikaze to thwart the vikings and that's pretty high fantasy there. There is even a wizards' guild already in place; however, if you put a magic store on every street corner you'll minimize HarnWorld's strength-it's balance.

Things you can do easily: in HMG your Fyvrian mage can master a longevity spell, and if he or she does so in the pre-game you might end up with a 100 year old wizard with plenty of mastered spells. You can ease the setting restrictions on learning and attuning to other convocations to get well-rounded mages. In HMC You can ease up on the fatigue gain and shock threshold. Increase the benefit of foci, make scrolls more available, increase elemental effects due to environment so you get greater EMLs.
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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#6 Post by Munin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:12 am

zrayaan wrote:It really depends on what you mean by "magic rich." I mean, the Council of Eleven created their own kamikaze to thwart the vikings and that's pretty high fantasy there.
Meh, maybe it was just a good PR campaign taking advantage of a coincidence. I mean, if a freak storm sinking an invading fleet is enough, then Japan, England, and Korea all qualify as magical kingdoms.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#7 Post by Krazma » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:29 am

At various points in history, they all were regarded as such.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#8 Post by MDMann » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:14 am

And still are...
Per Sir Veer.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#9 Post by Peter the skald » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:43 am

...only because the winners pay the poets and skalds...
Plots and schemes are the same thing..

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#10 Post by MDMann » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:13 pm

Oh, my naive fellow. The winners don't pay the skalds (though they do if they're smart, not a given), but slaughter those whose eddas are "historically inaccurate". After all it is the week of the Bard.
Per Sir Veer.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#11 Post by Peter the skald » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:42 pm

MDMann wrote:Oh, my naive fellow. The winners don't pay the skalds (though they do if they're smart, not a given), but slaughter those whose eddas are "historically inaccurate". After all it is the week of the Bard.
You assumed my use of the phrase 'paying the skalds' involved merely gold, and not steel?
Plots and schemes are the same thing..

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#12 Post by MDMann » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:24 pm

Fair point.
Per Sir Veer.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#13 Post by zrayaan » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:14 am

Nah, you only have to pay the skald in ale and mead, but even then they have you fooled-every skald has a different version for each audience. Elven bards otoh have one version that's so nebulously poetic it satisfies every view point.
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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#14 Post by Leitchy » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:52 am

I'm not certain I can recall a more complete thread hijack than this talk of skalds...

How about we try to answer the OP's question a bit better, guys. Y'know, for something different...

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#15 Post by BrianSmaller » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:22 pm

Leitchy wrote:I'm not certain I can recall a more complete thread hijack than this talk of skalds...

How about we try to answer the OP's question a bit better, guys. Y'know, for something different...

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Consider yourselves skalded.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#16 Post by Leitchy » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:17 pm

I think this has been one of the defining misunderstandings about HarnWorld; it's as magic-rich as any setting published by those really well-known companies on the western coast of the USA. ;)

Harn isn't magic-poor, it's magic-rare, or (more accurately) magic-subtle. It's not in your face, it's not available on every street corner, and for that reason, it doesn't warp the society in which it exists. We understand fairly well how human society works, since we live in one. But we don't understand how magic would shape society, and broad availability of magic is even harder to guess. Look at modern technology; no-one foresaw how that's turned out and we're still just as blind as to how much it's going to change our society, our culture and so forth in the near future. Making magic subtle and rare means the authors of HarnWorld have a better chance of making the society and cultures of this fantasy world closer to reality, and so more believable.

My advice to you is to try to leave the magic where it is; it's just as high as in classic DnD, but nowhere near as "in your face". Try to keep it that way if you can. If your party's wizard gets poor service in a tavern and dumps a fireball in the kitchen, then he should be declared renegade and hunted down. :) Actually, if the player says that's what his character is going to do, remind him of the consequences before it happens.

And that's the best reason for using HarnWorld over a classic high fantasy setting.

IMNSHO, of course...

:mrgreen:
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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#17 Post by Peter the skald » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:01 pm

Ummm...esteemed host....whilst that is not a hijack...is it, erm...well...actually answering the op :)

Which was how does the setting handle d and d style magic systems...called high here but I would add stage front or in your face as said.

To which the answer is I do not know, never tried it, think it would change it irrevocably (read ruin there) and require effort to explain. Like I said in my initial response :)
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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#18 Post by chlodoweg » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:20 pm

Leitchy wrote:I think this has been one of the defining misunderstandings about HarnWorld; it's as magic-rich as any setting published by those really well-known companies on the western coast of the USA. ;)

Harn isn't magic-poor, it's magic-rare, or (more accurately) magic-subtle. It's not in your face, it's not available on every street corner, and for that reason, it doesn't warp the society in which it exists. We understand fairly well how human society works, since we live in one. But we don't understand how magic would shape society, and broad availability of magic is even harder to guess. Look at modern technology; no-one foresaw how that's turned out and we're still just as blind as to how much it's going to change our society, our culture and so forth in the near future. Making magic subtle and rare means the authors of HarnWorld have a better chance of making the society and cultures of this fantasy world closer to reality, and so more believable.

My advice to you is to try to leave the magic where it is; it's just as high as in classic DnD, but nowhere near as "in your face". Try to keep it that way if you can. If your party's wizard gets poor service in a tavern and dumps a fireball in the kitchen, then he should be declared renegade and hunted down. :) Actually, if the player says that's what his character is going to do, remind him of the consequences before it happens.

And that's the best reason for using HarnWorld over a classic high fantasy setting.

IMNSHO, of course...

:mrgreen:

Thanks, very thoughtful answer and pretty much the conclusion I was coming to myself. Just curious to see others' take on it.

And I was enjoying the hijack, by the way.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#19 Post by zrayaan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:22 pm

chlodoweg wrote: And I was enjoying the hijack, by the way.
It's how we demonstrate we care.
Cheers, Konnel.

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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#20 Post by Leitchy » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:36 pm

chlodoweg wrote:And I was enjoying the hijack, by the way.
DON'T say that! It only encourages them....

:lol: :lol:
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Re: more magic-rich versions of Harn

#21 Post by Derfman » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:10 pm

I'm a little late to this thread, but as others have communicated, Harn can actually have substantial magic, and that's even keeping ENTIRELY canon.

Canon is that magic out among the population, even among the rich and nobility is rare (not zero, but rare)...

But there is also some serious high grade magic worthy of D&D present. The Bognor adventure might be fanon, but it is SOLIDLY written on a canon base, and its pretty high level magic.

And it just takes a little tweeking for a GM to make magic a little more common in society (not my pHarn speed, but if you and your players have fun, you are doing it correctly)...

Having said that, making magic a lot more common in society starts to conflict somewhat sharply with the 'tone' of most canon. It can still be done, but a GM will need to think on it a bit more to make the setting 'fit' the magic he is adding.

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