Armours/Weapons weight revised

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DeathFromAbove
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Armours/Weapons weight revised

#1 Post by DeathFromAbove » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:39 pm

Anyone is aware of some fanon that revised the weights for armour and weapons?

I remember there was something around, but it seems I ve lost it (perhaps I did it myself... Can t remember).

They weights are a tad high on HM3 rulebook.

I know they try to balance withe the high A/D, Endurance etc, but I guess removing a few pounds and reducing A/D for weapons, will lead to a better game.
Will also give players more freedom in armour selection.
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#2 Post by Targan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:48 pm

After the last discussion on this topic on this forum, I did some web research and found that, while definitely on average tending towards greater weight, most weapon weights in the various HM editions weren't so far off the real life mark that I felt a burning need to change them.
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#3 Post by DeathFromAbove » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:31 pm

On average, they are 1lb off, or two for bigger weapons.

Armours, and cloths, are partcularly affected.
You can easily reach 30lb with cloth and a bit if leather.

I use to reenact and HEMA, with armour and such, I feel the weight to be off.
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#4 Post by Peter the skald » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:51 am

I don't think anyone bothered to do so, or at least show anyone. If I had to bet on anyone doing so it would have been you!!!!!! 😃

With the presence/prevalence of folk here willing to drop.their hats to generate a harnic version of whatever new rule system comes out, it is not surprising a minutae of Harnmaster is overlooked. I am expecting someone asking for us to.look over their pvaric take on the poker rules soon....

Having said that; ultra accurate weights are not necessarily a Harnmasterthing... But at least it allowed a sly dig at all the converters out there...
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#5 Post by DeathFromAbove » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:12 am

Peter, I guess I didn t got the whole of your post :lol:

If there is no review of the weights, I ll redo it myself.

I have a nice pdf collection to contribute back to the community, that I guess will make a really nice rouding of an already exceptional system.

Probably I ll call it something like "Unofficial HarnMaster 3.5". :roll:
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#6 Post by MDMann » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:34 am

If you play poker with a 6 suit deck, you get pvaric poker. Hearts, diamonds, clubs, spades, coins, cups. If you use a tarot deck, you can have the major and minor arcana represent neutrality or the centre of the wheel.
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#7 Post by Peter the skald » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:00 am

MDMann wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:34 am
If you play poker with a 6 suit deck, you get pvaric poker. Hearts, diamonds, clubs, spades, coins, cups. If you use a tarot deck, you can have the major and minor arcana represent neutrality or the centre of the wheel.
See! SEE!! Although technically that is transference...what you would have to do to truly annoy me would be re write the rules of poker to accommodate harnic stuff because you like poker and you like Harn 😆
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#8 Post by DeathFromAbove » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:18 am

I don't want to add rules, just review something that is already there.

The fact that something works in the system, doesn't have to stop you from aspiring to "perfection", no? :p

Is like videogame patches: they don't only fix game breaking bugs but, most of the times, they improve it. :D
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#9 Post by Peter the skald » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:09 am

DFA...

I was jokingly attacking all the wonderful and in depth work folk do for conversions to other systems such as Fate, Genesys et al... Jokingly Noting that perhaps your additions were overlooked BECAUSE they are in my Beloved but apparrently much underused harnmaster 🙂

The truth of the matter is that when polls are done most folk (just) have a preference for harnmaster; but much of the industrious, sterling, stunning work is in other systems. The nightingale minority 😆
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#10 Post by DeathFromAbove » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:50 am

So you don play harnmaster yourself?

Shame... :cry:
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#11 Post by Targan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:48 am

DeathFromAbove wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:12 am
If there is no review of the weights, I ll redo it myself.
I agree that the armour weights ain't right. I'd be interested to see what you come up with.
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#12 Post by WarFlail » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:51 pm

What is the intention behind this - is it related to HârnMaster's encumbrance rules?

If so, then the weight of weapons and armour isn't the only thing that should be addressed. The problem with weight-based encumbrance rules is that they don't take into account bulkiness and whether the item is being carried or worn (and if so, how). Carrying and wielding a spear mid-haft is going to be easier than doing the same near the spear's butt. Likewise, armour with good weight distribution across the shoulders and hips will be less encumbering than a loose hauberk that shifts about when you move.

I don't know of any system that handles this well, but personally I think the very simple rules provided by Lamentations of the Flame Princess are a step in the right direction. In that system, weight is eschewed in favour of effective size.


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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#13 Post by Peter the skald » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:16 pm

DeathFromAbove wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:50 am
So you don play harnmaster yourself?

Shame... :cry:
The opposite? What did I say that made you think that? When in Harn I use Harnmaster.

1) I use Harnmaster
2) Much of the hard work here system wise is NOT Harnmaster.
3) This perplexes, amuses, and when drunk annoys me; as much of the work is top notch, but I will.never have need of it.
4) I was jokingly suggesting the armour weight issue had gained little traction here precisely because it was couched in Harnmaster terms.
Last edited by Peter the skald on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#14 Post by DeathFromAbove » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:20 pm

The intentions is just to review the weights to be a bit more realistic.
This will allow PC/NPC a widet armour (or cloth...) range, without feeling over-penalised.

Bulkiness of objects is a nice idea but, how many times it comes into play, to justify added rules\complexity/frustrations?

Harnmaster is not a simulator. And even simulator on powerfull PCs does compromises.

Situations where you use bulky objects are usually evident, and easily addressable by the GM.

If you carry a spear and you need to pick a boulder with both hands, it is assumed you leave the spear on the floor.
If it happens you walk 1 mile and then you have to fight: whoops, spear left 1 mile ago.

One simple solution would be to move from weight to some othet virtual measure, that is a mix.
Itns easy and cheap.
The cons, is that you have to have a hughe list of items already evaluated, but there will be situatios where the system will crack, as there will be no correlation between strength and weight.
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#15 Post by DeathFromAbove » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:21 pm

Peter the skald wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:16 pm
DeathFromAbove wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:50 am
So you don play harnmaster yourself?

Shame... :cry:
The opposite? What did I say that made you think that? When in Harn I use Harnmaster.

1) I use Harnmaster
2) Much of the hard work here system wise is NOT Harnmaster.
3) This perplexes, amuses, and when drunk annoys me; as much of the work is top notch, but I will.never have need of it.
4) I was jokingly suggesting the armour weight issue had gained little traction here precisely because it was couched in Harnmaster terms.

Ok. I ve re-read the posts multiple times, and comeup with a better understanding.

Yes, I agree that some works are non-Harn related :D

It s not me. I want to improve Harn, not creating a system to simulate starting a fire during a blizzard.
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#16 Post by DeathFromAbove » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:07 am

I've decided to attach my GM Screen 5.0 Beta (i.E. is a work in progress).

It has a lot of stuff, also borrowed by other people outstanding works, so please don't be offended if you find something familiar.

In the last page I've started reviewing the shields, you can see where I'm going.

Any feedback welcome.
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Re: Armours/Weapons weight revised

#17 Post by Targan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:27 pm

Peter the skald wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:09 am
... my Beloved but apparrently much underused harnmaster 🙂
HM 4 Life. In fact, not only would I never use any other systems for campaigns in the Harn setting, I've spent years converting HM to other settings.
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