HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

A place to discuss HârnMaster Rules specifically. Remember: game mechanics are a way of resolving questions in play, not explanations of the world itself. (Krazma, 2013)

Moderator: Spartan

Post Reply
Message
Author
tetnak
Half Villein
Half Villein
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:18 am

HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#1 Post by tetnak » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:00 am

Hello all,

I have a question about military occupations. Typically, the skills are listed as specialties. My question is, if you take, let's say Falchion, do you get Sword as well?

Thanks,

Tet

User avatar
Krazma
Constable
Constable
Posts: 2967
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#2 Post by Krazma » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:07 am

If the OML is above 40, yes.

tetnak
Half Villein
Half Villein
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:18 am

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#3 Post by tetnak » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:25 am

That's what I assumed.

Another questions about specialties .. Once I hit the OML of 40, I can break off the skill into as many specialties as I want, is that true?

User avatar
Krazma
Constable
Constable
Posts: 2967
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#4 Post by Krazma » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:50 am

In theory, yes, though in practice this would probably not be very effective.

Of course, how different GMs handle specialties tends to vary a lot. I've never encountered a need to establish a limit on the number of specialties a PC could take for a given skill, but I suppose I'd cap it at whatever the current SI is.

User avatar
zrayaan
Knight
Knight
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:46 am
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Contact:

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#5 Post by zrayaan » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:14 pm

If you use the option for skill decline (which might not be present in HM3), it is self-correcting since the more skills you have the smaller the proportion that can be protected or increased, meaning you have a lot of naned specialties which remain at OML (or the ML of the parent skill if the GM wishes that to be the floor).
Cheers, Konnel.

Eshâyaél | Green & Pleasant Land

tetnak
Half Villein
Half Villein
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:18 am

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#6 Post by tetnak » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:01 pm

Yes. I don't see it being all that useful to have a lot of specialties. Just trying to wrap my head around the rule as written. Thanks for your help everyone!

User avatar
Rothesay
Sheriff
Sheriff
Posts: 6095
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 1:09 am
Location: Weymouth, MA
Contact:

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#7 Post by Rothesay » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:55 pm

I do it the other way.

Sword is taken first. After that, specialties.

So, if one has Sword ML 40, then falchion can be taken as a specialty.

Eder
Reeve
Reeve
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:13 pm

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#8 Post by Eder » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:58 pm

zrayaan wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:14 pm
If you use the option for skill decline (which might not be present in HM3)
It is! And indeed it tends to make specialties "HM3 style" even less worth it.

But let me restate what I said elsewhere: while it may not be a "wise" investment taking a narrow specialty over the "parent" skill for the character, you don't always control what you learn. It's up to the GM to decide whether to award development rolls in the specialty or in the "parent" skill; and if your Shipwright only ever makes talbars, most of his development rolls are likely to be in the talbar specialty.

tetnak
Half Villein
Half Villein
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:18 am

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#9 Post by tetnak » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:19 pm

Rothesay wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:55 pm
I do it the other way.

Sword is taken first. After that, specialties.

So, if one has Sword ML 40, then falchion can be taken as a specialty.
Understood. However, for military careers they list the specialty only, that's where my confusion began.

User avatar
Krazma
Constable
Constable
Posts: 2967
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#10 Post by Krazma » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:25 am

Here's how I handle specialties in HM3:

When a specialty skill is opened, there is no base or "parent" skill opened unless the OML is above 40, in which case the parent skill is opened at ML40. Similarly, if the specialty skill ML starts below 40 but is later improved to above 40, the parent skill would then be opened at ML40.

A few examples, all of which assume a SB of 13:
  • Example 1: A PC ostler opens Horsecraft to SBx4. With SB13, the ostler would open Horsecraft to ML52 and Animalcraft to ML40.
  • Example 2: A PC yeoman uses an OP to open Horsecraft to SBx2 (per Character 27). The yeoman would open Horsecraft to ML26 and would NOT open Animalcraft until such time as Horsecraft has improved to ML41 or better.
  • Example 3: A PC lady opens Needlework to SBx3 (ML39). Ordinarily, this would not allow her to also open Textilecraft. However, if the player uses an OP to improve it to SBx4, then Needlework would open at ML52 and Textilecraft at ML40.

tetnak
Half Villein
Half Villein
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:18 am

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#11 Post by tetnak » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:54 am

Krazma wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:25 am
Here's how I handle specialties in HM3:

When a specialty skill is opened, there is no base or "parent" skill opened unless the OML is above 40, in which case the parent skill is opened at ML40. Similarly, if the specialty skill ML starts below 40 but is later improved to above 40, the parent skill would then be opened at ML40.

A few examples, all of which assume a SB of 13:
  • Example 1: A PC ostler opens Horsecraft to SBx4. With SB13, the ostler would open Horsecraft to ML52 and Animalcraft to ML40.
  • Example 2: A PC yeoman uses an OP to open Horsecraft to SBx2 (per Character 27). The yeoman would open Horsecraft to ML26 and would NOT open Animalcraft until such time as Horsecraft has improved to ML41 or better.
  • Example 3: A PC lady opens Needlework to SBx3 (ML39). Ordinarily, this would not allow her to also open Textilecraft. However, if the player uses an OP to improve it to SBx4, then Needlework would open at ML52 and Textilecraft at ML40.
I like that.

It seems as though this issue is mostly with military careers due to the specialties being listed instead of the base skill. Otherwise, I don't believe you can open a specialties until the base skill is 40. The high modifiers in military careers almost guarantees you will get to > 40.

Turin2
Sheriff
Sheriff
Posts: 5658
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:33 am

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#12 Post by Turin2 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:58 am

I like the HM3 specialty rules for craft or knowledge based skills.

For Combat I like the HM1/HMG version, i.e. If you don't specialize once in a weapon it's at -10, if you specialize twice it's +5. I'm not sure if it's a houserule or HMG rule to allow a triple scecialty for a +10.

User avatar
zrayaan
Knight
Knight
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:46 am
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Contact:

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#13 Post by zrayaan » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:43 am

Turin2 wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:58 am
I like the HM3 specialty rules for craft or knowledge based skills.

For Combat I like the HM1/HMG version, i.e. If you don't specialize once in a weapon it's at -10, if you specialize twice it's +5. I'm not sure if it's a houserule or HMG rule to allow a triple scecialty for a +10.
Wasn't HM1 a blanket +10 for Specialties, or perhaps HM2? The trip specialty must be a house rule, though.
Cheers, Konnel.

Eshâyaél | Green & Pleasant Land

Eder
Reeve
Reeve
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:13 pm

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#14 Post by Eder » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:49 am

zrayaan wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:43 am
Wasn't HM1 a blanket +10 for Specialties, or perhaps HM2? The trip specialty must be a house rule, though.
In HM1 (Skills 7) you get one specialty for each point your "base" SI exceeds 5, and you can choose the same specialty multiple times. The first pick of a specialty yields +10 ML, and the following ones +5 each. Note: ML, not EML -- so SI is (explicitly) affected too.

I believe that "-10 if unspecialized, 0 if specialized, +5 for each subsequent specialty" is how HMG (which I do not use) handles (combat?) skills.

User avatar
Krazma
Constable
Constable
Posts: 2967
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#15 Post by Krazma » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:59 am

tetnak wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:54 am
Otherwise, I don't believe you can open a specialties until the base skill is 40.
Generally, the only time you'd open a specialty at below ML40 is character generation. If you choose to specialize after character generation, they you can do so once the parent skill reaches ML40.

Note - This is all at GM discretion, of course. There's nothing to say you can't open a specialty at less than ML40 after character generation if you haven't already got the parent skill. For example, a PC who takes up service to a powerful lord -- say the Earl of Vemion -- might well be able to open Heraldry: Vemionshire (at SBx1) after a suitable period of instruction and hanging out in court, but it wouldn't do him much good outside of Vemionshire. Later, once his ML has risen to 41+ then the parent skill can be opened, reflecting that he's learned enough to start applying it more broadly.

User avatar
Krazma
Constable
Constable
Posts: 2967
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#16 Post by Krazma » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:35 am

Lord Dynel wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:17 am
Krazma wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:07 am
If the OML is above 40, yes.
When you said that if the OML is 40 then you can, it sounds like you're saying that Sword kind of acts like a specialty of Falchion. Is that the case? So if my Falchion is 65, then Sword also becomes 65?
No, not at all. The only time this is an issue is at character creation. If you start with a specialty skill over ML40, then the "parent" skill can be assumed to be at ML40 (unless it would ordinarily open at a higher ML). You don't get it at a higher level unless you spend OPs to do so.

User avatar
Lord Dynel
Villein
Villein
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:22 am

Re: HarnMaster 3.0 Specialties

#17 Post by Lord Dynel » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:48 am

Krazma wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:35 am
[quote="Lord Dynel" post_id=221792 time=<a href="tel:1505060243">1505060243</a> user_id=24418]
[quote=Krazma post_id=221337 time=<a href="tel:1503792426">1503792426</a> user_id=1006]
If the OML is above 40, yes.
When you said that if the OML is 40 then you can, it sounds like you're saying that Sword kind of acts like a specialty of Falchion. Is that the case? So if my Falchion is 65, then Sword also becomes 65?
[/quote]

No, not at all. The only time this is an issue is at character creation. If you start with a specialty skill over ML40, then the "parent" skill can be assumed to be at ML40 (unless it would ordinarily open at a higher ML). You don't get it at a higher level unless you spend OPs to do so.
[/quote]

Okay, I believe I understand it now. Thanks for that explanation!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests