Madness At Hyen Keep

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Darkra
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Madness At Hyen Keep

#1 Post by Darkra » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:02 am

Alright men, I need some help with this one. I'm at a point in my game where things have moved on from the small scale and progressed in to something more fantasy and grand.

One of my players has been turned in to a dragon. Yup.
In addition to this, there will be a visit by the king of Rethem to Hyen keep. I plan a royal procession scene of him entering the keep.
The players will be taking this opportunity to attack him.... And they have a dragon to do it... ;D
SO! I plan on having him be surrounded by at least a company or 2 of men. My problem is trying to figure out freaking combat. Obviously I wanna use a map. But I'm trying to decide if I should use the quick combat rules in HMG, quick combat in HM1 (Amazing edition btw... Probably the best overall IMO)
Or something entirely different.
All I can think of is there gonna be like:
Ok I fly over and use my fire breath to burn them all.
Its gonna be a hella lot rolls, math, and headaches figuring it out for all those people.

... Any help guys?

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#2 Post by MDMann » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:39 am

The latest game of thrones episode may provide some inspiration.

The King's guard is only a minimum of 2 companies. More is entirely appropriate, especially if he's travelling so far south near the dangerous border.

The Hook have scorpions I believe. They certainly should now in any event.

The King's court could include a powerful mage of Pelhean, which should make things interesting. Plus plenty of priests. All the nobles at court will bring their own entourages too, all of whom are armed.

Don't forget the Laranians. See dragon. Attack dragon.
Per Sir Veer.

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#3 Post by Darkra » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:27 am

Right... So... More people haha. How the hell would you propose I handle a battle on that scale rule wise? :scared:
Cause with vanilla HarnMaster Rules... It could take years. :3

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#4 Post by DucatiDon » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:32 am

Use Battlelust rules, or set up a Warhammer Fantasy battle scenario!

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#5 Post by Darkra » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:47 am

DucatiDon wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:32 am
Use Battlelust rules, or set up a Warhammer Fantasy battle scenario!
Are battlelust rules the same as the quick combat rules in HM2, or HMG?
Is it worth the buy?

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#6 Post by DucatiDon » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:05 am

Hmm cant answer that as I am unfamiliar with the quick combat and HMG.

I like Battleust because its fully compatible with HM3.

Alternately, you could run the battle narrative style with rolls for specific outcomes, maybe have the players run a mission behind the scenes...
But if a player "is" a Dragon, that should be the focus. Let him burn a lot of troops, but threaten him with a Bolt thrower or three..... Don't be afraid to have the bad guys take innocents as shields....

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#7 Post by Peter the skald » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:05 am

Ask your players what style they would like to play out battles with; and whether they would mind it taking a very long time. Hopefully you would not get too diverse replies 😁

In my group I know one player would gleefully knuckle down to gritty sim Hm 3 denouements whilst another would hate it ☹. If you get lucky, your players might dovetail better into a favoured style.

As for what mechanics to use if not using an established system the world is your oyster. If shortening a battleoutcome for pc's you could do a single initiative check. Doesn't tell you who wins the battle; but how the pc's fare in it. Perhaps more of a 'did I come through unscathed mechanism'.

I suspect the person playing the dragon is looking forward to rolling a big handful of dice...I would not disappoint. 18d6 4 or more to hit.....those that hit 3 or more to incapcitate....
Plots and schemes are the same thing..

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#8 Post by joseph_mccallum » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:20 pm

You may want to take a look at the Attack Wing rules ( https://wizkids.com/attackwing/dnd-attack-wing/ ). You could adapt these for Harn quite easily and increase the scale a bit. There is a link to download their Quick-start Rulebook and Rules of Play on the page and its a pretty fun system. Far from Ideal I'd have to say as it would need some work to tweak it but if you're willing to put in the effort I think it would work well (and you could always post what you come up with here for others to use :) ). The system at its core deals with Air-to-air and air-to-ground combat, with dragons, albeit on a small-ish scale.

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#9 Post by joseph_mccallum » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:21 pm

You may want to take a look at the Attack Wing rules ( https://wizkids.com/attackwing/dnd-attack-wing/ ). You could adapt these for Harn quite easily and increase the scale a bit. There is a link to download their Quick-start Rulebook and Rules of Play on the page and its a pretty fun system. Far from Ideal I'd have to say as it would need some work to tweak it but if you're willing to put in the effort I think it would work well (and you could always post what you come up with here for others to use :) ). The system at its core deals with Air-to-air and air-to-ground combat, with dragons, albeit on a small-ish scale.

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#10 Post by Derfman » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:13 am

Optional GM shenanigans:

A real dragon notices that an unknown dragon is in the area and investigates.....

......options include the real dragon being hostile.....
......just saying hi......
.....or perhaps thinks the PC dragon is super hot....... (Careful with this one, it can create significant work for the GM......)

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#11 Post by Brian_Smaller » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:12 am

Derfman wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:13 am
Optional GM shenanigans:

A real dragon notices that an unknown dragon is in the area and investigates.....

......options include the real dragon being hostile.....
......just saying hi......
.....or perhaps thinks the PC dragon is super hot....... (Careful with this one, it can create significant work for the GM......)
I like where you are heading with this one. There was a reason that the local village called that hill over there Dragon's Rest.

The presence of the PC dragon awakens the sleeping 'real' dragon that has lain in magical slumber for uncounted years. I don't know how you are when you wake up after a long sleep.....are dragons really any different?

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#12 Post by Targan » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:43 am

Derfman wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:13 am
.....or perhaps thinks the PC dragon is super hot....... (Careful with this one, it can create significant work for the GM......)
"Does your chararacter have Lovecraft open?"

"No, why?"

"He does now".
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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#13 Post by Darkra » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:51 am

Thanks for the tips guys! I think ill go with battlelust! However I also REALLY love those DnD Dragon game rules.

And omg Targen and Derfmen I'm dying from laughter.

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#14 Post by MDMann » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:46 pm

Say mid air collision.

And below, a bucolic serfs chewing a wisp of straw saying.

"Well, you don't see that everyday."
Per Sir Veer.

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#15 Post by Derfman » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:53 pm

Darkra wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:51 am
Thanks for the tips guys! I think ill go with battlelust! However I also REALLY love those DnD Dragon game rules.

And omg Targen and Derfmen I'm dying from laughter.
If you have to go the 'Love Interest' route, a few suggestions........

....assuming it is a male character, if female you'll need to adjust this advice a bit........

(almost) Everything on Dragons, even outside Harn material, suggest solitary individuals that interact only occasionally. PHarn: Once a mating is done, papa dragon will not normally hang around. In Dragon terms he will probably be 'good terms' with mom, but will not live there, and maybe say hello every few years.
PHarn (suggested by Kethian Dragon creation myth) Dragon have INTENSE desire during 'mating season' or when in 'heat', etc. Desire intense enough to toss off the bindings of gods and the bukrai. This give the GM the 'option' to simply tell the player what his character is doing. GM option The character won't even get a roll to resist the desire......

So....
Once done, the PC does NOT get a devoted 'dragon wife and children'.
Reaction of girl dragon when/if PC is revealed as human:
1. Rage (not my choice as a GM, but its an option. Not even close to my choice.....)
2. Does not care, as the character was a Dragon when it counted.....
2a. Does not care, but player can at least approach and talk as long he does do anything stupid. In my pHarn the dragon would ACTIVELY not want to get involved in human affairs, and would be irritated by pestering......
......however......
.......the 2a option opens the door for the GM to make the dragon into an exotic 'quest giver' and 'lore source'.
Have any offspring share mom's attitude except when exceptions forward your game. Be careful with exceptions.

Basically, unless the PC does so much for the dragon that even a dragon he had not mated with would feel indebted, his dragon 'spouse' is not going to be a minion of any sort.

The only freebie, and its a significant one, is that there is a dragon that the character, and perhaps party, can approach without too much danger.

Oh, and FIND a way to have some NPC use MDMann's "Well, you don't see that everyday" comment....
(Unless a player beats em to it...)

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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#16 Post by Targan » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:35 pm

I guess if she was a nice lady dragon, you might be inclined to keep in touch. If she was nasty, well, you wouldn't want that sort of relationship to drag on.
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Re: Madness At Hyen Keep

#17 Post by Brian_Smaller » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:45 am

Targan wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:35 pm
I guess if she was a nice lady dragon, you might be inclined to keep in touch. If she was nasty, well, you wouldn't want that sort of relationship to drag on.
Ha ha.

Imagine what the mother in law will be like.

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