Maritime Trade

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phderiksson
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Maritime Trade

#1 Postby phderiksson » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:18 am

Need of help.

Reading from the Pilot Almanac. Trying to figure out the relative profit, using various Harn pricelist.
First of all, vessel is given a cargo capacity in tuns. And if I understand it correctly there are two ways that shipped cargo is measured, weight or measurement tons. Weight ton equals 2,000 pounds or Measurement ton equals 40 cubic feet.

Well, assuming shipping of 1 tun of Raw Wool (Retail price 4d/lb). Let say the captain loads 1 ton wool, purchased for 50% of retail and sell it in the next port for 75% of retail price. The total profit would be (2000lb * 3d/lb) - (2000lb * 2d/lb) = 2000d = £8.
It seems a little to much even if we add up ship and crew cost?
Pilots almanac give net profit per tun to 10d6*10d, i.e. 100-600d
Last edited by phderiksson on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BrianSmaller
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Re: Maritime Trade

#2 Postby BrianSmaller » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:28 am

Not if there is a glut of wool and his cargo doesn't sell for what he hoped.

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Re: Maritime Trade

#3 Postby Krazma » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:55 am

A "tun" does not equal a "ton." One is a measure of volume, the other a measure of weight. If you want to calculate this using retail prices, you're going to have to work out how much space a ton of raw wool takes up in a cargo hold. A tun of steel will weigh far more than a tun of styrofoam, but take up the same amount of space.

For a single tun lot, the maximum lot value would be 600d. See Maritime Trade 2.

Granted, the system presented in Pilots' Almanac is basic, and not designed to do what you are trying to do.
The following guidelines provide a basic system for maritime trade from the point of view of the captain of a trading vessel. How to make deals and buy/sell cargoes are discussed in sufficient detail for most players. Those who want to immerse themselves in the minutae of international trade from a mercantyler's point of view, will, alas, have to await a planned trade and economic module.

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Re: Maritime Trade

#4 Postby Targan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:54 am

I've just gone through all of this myself over the past couple of weeks for my own campaign. The tun as a unit of measurement for shipping is definitely a unit of volume, not weight. Individual captains as part of their skill set would become good at estimating how much ballast would be needed to be taken aboard depending on the mass of the cargo (or they'd end up dead or shipwrecked).

The problem I've had is estimating the wholesale prices for bulk goods. It's really been doing my head in.
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Re: Maritime Trade

#5 Postby phderiksson » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:29 pm

Krazma wrote:A "tun" does not equal a "ton." One is a measure of volume, the other a measure of weight.

True. But I come across both. Cargo tonnage: the cargo capacity of a vessel, expressed in weight or volume. Assuming volume is right the total weight of one tun equalls 3200 lb. The density of wool being 82 lb/cu ft. So I assumed the lower cargo capacity in this case.

I tend to agree with
BrianSmaller wrote:Not if there is a glut of wool and his cargo doesn't sell for what he hoped.


I assumed, wrongly, that the shipowner partake in all of the profit. If instead the mercantiler take the lionpart and the shipowner receivet transport charge. Lets say 2/3 to the mecantiler and 1/3 to ship owner. Then, if we assume a profit of 2000 d/tun the net profit for the shipowner would be 666d. :mrgreen:
Last edited by phderiksson on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Maritime Trade

#6 Postby Derfman » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:29 pm

Targan wrote:The problem I've had is estimating the wholesale prices for bulk goods. It's really been doing my head in.


THAT I have a solution for: Don't.

A lot of players and even GMs have a nasty habit of wanting to play "Crunch the numbers and make money" at the point where RPGs meet in game economics....
I've been GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY of this...
The best solution to this habit is "Don't".

And its easy....

There are two common ways PCs manage their money making property
--Personally manage it
--Have a minion (NPC) manage it

Personal management is even required in same cases, such as when the game is revolving around a ship owned and operated by PCs
But don't crunch numbers
Just ASSUME that if the PCs are doing "Due Dilligence" that they (usually) have "Reasonable Success", and assign a periodic modest profit or loss that overall is modestly profitable. Then spend the game time on other stuff. Its that easy.
Exceptions (mostly) occur for a story. When a story is happening, BIG profits and losses can happen, but they depend on rollplayed actions.

For the PC with remote property (like a manor that is run by a wife), the GM assigns a skill/competence to the NPC, and then assigns profits and losses accordingly. Again, profits and losses WILL be modest, but overall profitable, with exceptions for being part of a story.

Unless its part of story, don't waste time on it, and keep the numbers both 'appropriate' and 'modest'.

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Re: Maritime Trade

#7 Postby Targan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:20 pm

Derfman wrote:
Targan wrote:The problem I've had is estimating the wholesale prices for bulk goods. It's really been doing my head in.


THAT I have a solution for: Don't.


The PCs defeated a group of pirates sponsored by Clan Sherwyn and recovered a variety of bulk cargo goods. I've been trying to calculate the value of the cargo to determine what share of cash or kind they'll receive. Luckily there are so many variables in how much the various goods recovered can be sold for, I don't have to be too worried about my calculations being "right".
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phderiksson
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Re: Maritime Trade

#8 Postby phderiksson » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:13 pm

Targan wrote:The problem I've had is estimating the wholesale prices for bulk goods. It's really been doing my head in.

To set the price of bulk goods I would suggest something in line with the Dramatic Conflict Fanon. Setting the FMV (Fair Market Value] in relation to the retailprice and markets need of the product.

Demand: 60-80%
Self-Sufficient: 50-70%
Surplus: 40-60%

As Gm always start with the least profitable numbers. And modify/bargain to a modest profit from there.
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Re: Maritime Trade

#9 Postby phderiksson » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:31 am

I would like to correct my calculation after reading some more. I do believe the net profit is much less than my original assumptions.
Assuming a vessel leaving Selvos with a cargo of wool for the final destination to Golotha.
    The Retail price of raw wool is 4d/lb.
    1 tun of wool equals 40 cubic feet.
    Wool has a density of 80 lb/cubic feet
    The retail price is thus: 3200d/tun (4d/lb * 40 cu ft/tun * 80 lb/cu ft)

    The wool is purchased at 50% of retail price.
    The wool is sold at 70% of retail price
    The Export tax at Selvos is 5% of retail price. (My own invention, the Earl wants his share)
    The Hawking Fee at Golotha is also 5% of retail price
The net profit = 10% (70% - (50%+5%+5%))
In net cash 320d/tun

So in all in all the net profit mentioned in Pilots Almanac 100-600 d/tun is quite accurate.
Then wages, shares, etc. has to be distributed among owner, captain and crew members.
Although wages I would skip in the overall picture. It is only an approximate profit that is of interest.
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