Harn? I want that in my bed. Of course the name in negotiable.

(my wife is a 6' redhead I married well)

This is generally how I've done it. The west had all their calamities from 720-5, but slightly different in outcome. The KSC occurred in 722, but it turned out to be more a whimper. The Solora Crusade is just gathering steam in 730, and a few others have yet to occur.

I think the idea that they could be FBS or FHS is important and also why I think such fanon could be a valuable guide to GMs. No pre-determined outcomes - just setting the stage. The year one or more are used can be as variable as the GM likes.

I still think Harbaal's invasion of Harn is the best scenario. For starters, it would kick Melderyn and Kaldor out of their joint policy of "splendid isolation". These two states seem stuck in a time warp because neither country faces a really serious threat from anybody. The Jarin of Orbaal might be motivated to launch their second rebellion knowing that Melderyn, Kaldor, Azadmere, and possibly Evael might get off their collective asses to combine to resist the Harbaalese invasion. Most of Harn thinks that the Melderyn mages stopped the last Ivinian attack by creating a storm to destroy the viking fleet. We know and the Council of Eleven also know that Melderyn was saved by sheer luck and not by any magical intervention. A Harbaalese attack might puncture that old belief that the Melderyn mages are all knowing and all powerful.

Actually, with the help of the random mega events table in HM1, you don't even have to decide which come first. I rolled up a couple of years (720, 721) back in 1991-92 and liked the results enough that I am still working through them.

The plague in Orbaal that rolled in 720 explains the lack of a Jarin rising and the continued survival of Migninath keeps Kaldor quiet.

Meanwhile I rolled civil unrest for Tharda in 720 followed by war for Tharda, Rethem, and Kanday in 721. That has shaped the campaign as I had to develope the precursers for the events I knew were going to happen.

YMMV, but this has worked well for me.

Wm

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There is a chair and an NPC for visitors on Saturdays. We play most weeks. PM me. "You will always be my friend. You know too much."

One possibility not listed above is a massive incursion of dispossessed Menglanians. These would arrive, not in one surge, but in penny-packets that would be much harder to stop. The surge could meet a storm or something, but several different groups of 100-200 Ivinians arriving in Orbaal, Rethem, the shore of Eastern Hârn, and elsewhere would cause considerable trouble, and also trouble that groups of PCs might be more directly involved with.

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Laboro diem, carpe noctem.

Wait till the Earthmaster return. And they aren't happy.

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Ken Snellings
CHMP Member
Fredericksburg, Virginia, United States of America

Surely Menekai is an essential top of the list - sorry, couldn't resist.

Alun

If Dogberry is correct and there is a mass expulsion by the victorious Ibanvaal of the ruling clans of Menglana then it could lead to a number of possibilities. Possibility #1: The Menglanians (I don't what to call them...) could come as invaders to attack the existing Ivinian ruling clans in Orbaal. Possibility #2: The Menglanians could join their cousins in their respective clans and expell the Jarin (sparking a second Jarin rebellion). Possibility #3: Go to Lorkin and head up the Anoth river to settle in Orbaal's interior (threatening the Marwyns of Leriel and sparking a second Jarin rebellion). Possibility #4: Skip Orbaal, settle along Harn's east coast (forcing Azadmere and possibly Kaldor and/or Melderyn to respond). Possibility #5: Skip Orbaal and settle on: a) Equani's coastline, b) Urdu's coastline, c) Kubora's coastline (all would result in massive tribal conflict).

Just had to stir the pot, didn't you? And just as things were settling down.

By the way, nice job on Menekai.

PaladinSix

Suggested Product: The Billy Club. When I was answering a question about whether there were gargun on the Lythian mainland I came across the mention of this inn that caters to the gargun (Kyani) of Hlejis: "At Hlejis there is a tavern called the Billy Club. The fact that it caters to gargun and humans alike makes it almost unique in western Lythia. The proprietor, Kjal Erdsen, a retired Ivinian mercenary, is seven feet tall and one of the ugliest men anywhere." (Shorkyne Index, page twenty-four). I think this could be a fairly simple piece of fanon with obviously lots of interesting characters. Of course, it is located on Lythia which is KP's domain.

Just want to point out that this idea of Harn = CGI and the rest of Kethira = KP is just a perception that we have due to what the two have actually produced so far. There is no "agreement" to this effect.

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Ken Snellings
CHMP Member
Fredericksburg, Virginia, United States of America

True enough, which is why I've elsewhere referred to it as 'unwritten and unspoken.' However, I think it's in all our best interests to (at least) pretend it exists. We're the customers, after all, and if we want CGI and KP to continue to produce it behooves us to erect some boundaries. At the very least, it looks like the two writing teams are well aware of it, and they're the ones making new stuff anyway. CGI/KP can't publish that which has not been written.

None of that applies to fanon, of course.

I think this is really a misconception. And pretending that it exists just sets up folks to be angry when one group or the other "violates" an agreement that no one has actually made, or even implied that they've made.

CGI hasn't ventured outside of Harn since the split...but they're clearly working on Harnic Kingdoms and haven't finished that plan yet. KP started working on Chelemby and they haven't finished that yet. Once somebody finishes the large scope project they're working on..who knows what comes next?

As customers we can vote with our walets and we can try to communicate what we'd like to see next, but I don't think we have a calling to provide 'boundaries" and then expect others to abide by them.

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Ken Snellings
CHMP Member
Fredericksburg, Virginia, United States of America

I'd have to agree with Ken, especially the part about voting with our wallets.

I've been waiting on "promised" material for HarnWorld since 1983. I personally don't care who comes up with what for what area as long as:

a) stuff that has already written doesn't continually get rehashed
b) things start getting completed in a timely manner
c) We see some development of the parts of the world that have been largely ignored and neglected.
d) Things continue to be realtively well written.


IMO, CHelemby is a good start on the attention to other areas.

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let them at least have heard of brave knights and heroic courage. Otherwise you are making their destiny not brighter but darker. Lewis

I see that my innocent little comment about "KP's domain" has provoked a sharper response than I intended. I also have some strong opinions about this subject, however, we seem to be moving off course from Leitchy's original topic, "Upcoming Products". The CGI versus KP dispute is a fascinating topic that Leitchy unfortunately feels has run its course. Can this topic be re-opened on another forum or is it official (i.e. Leitchy) policy to avoid the CGI versus KP dispute altogether?

I'm not certain about that Merdain. It may be forum policy. I do remember reading something about it in the notes for newcomers, but I can't recall the verdict.

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let them at least have heard of brave knights and heroic courage. Otherwise you are making their destiny not brighter but darker. Lewis

As long as we're (supposedly) talking about upcoming products, may I make a hopeless, indeed laughable, suggestion that one or the other of these companies complete Trierzon Regional Module (TRM)? Fanon is best at small-scale work, and so TRM really needs to be canonical, as it would thus open up the fourth map to more detailed fanonical exploration.

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Laboro diem, carpe noctem.

Hi all,



You are of course correct, however I think many fans "wish it were true" so they could close this chapter in a very painfull chapter in the Harnic saga. However, what fans may want and what is actually true can be quite different things.



Given the considerable amount of work to be done by both sides, it may be a while before the "lack of an agreement" manifests itself. I think the likely "battleground" (and I truly hope it does not become one), is Melderyn. At HarnCon IV, Robin was selling new (expanded) maps of Cherafir. It is my understanding (and I sincerely invite anyone to correct me if I miss understood this) is that at one point, Robin did consider a "ceasefire" and was willing to let CGI take over all of Ivinia and Harn EXCEPT Melderyn. It is obvious to me that Melderyn holds a special place in Robin's heart and his greater master plan for Lythia (particularly Emelrene). I think if there is any "flashpoint" that would reignite the open conflict between CGI and KP, it would be one or the other side releasing Melderyn. However, it appears at least a few years away.



Personally, I have doubts as to whether a "boycott" could work with Harn. I think we are all just a little too nerdy, complete-ists, to risk missing a new release, no matter the politics. Also, the anonymity of the internet allows us to proclaim we are supporting the boycott while secretly buying from both sides. It is not like one side is going to tell the other who is violating the boycott!



Even as a freelance writer for CGI, I will be the first to agree with you Michael, things are too slow. Ideally, CGI would get everything back into print within a year and move on to new horizons. However, given the current slow editorial process, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I actually encouraged Robin to accept the split with CGI, because I personally believe he got the far better part of the deal. I agree, we need to open new worlds and vistas to Harn players. Harn is a very small place (especially for traditional roleplayers with itchy feet). I want to see new kingdoms, empires and even continents opened up to gamers. Because of this, I believe KP is best placed to actually do new and exciting locations.



I am not sure what this would accomplish. The NRC/CGI debate was long and didn't actually solve much. The only thing that was actually agreed to is that only two people can actually resolve this dispute:

N. Robin Crossby and Tom Dalgliesh

As fans (even as writers, artists and mappers), we can discuss what we would LIKE to see happen, what we THINK should happen and what we RECOMMEND should happen, but in the end, these are only our opinions. Tom virtually never visits this site. Grant visits very rarely and mostly just to make announcements. I don't know how much Robin visits the site, however he has not made many comments since the NRC/CGI debate ended.

So, again, I wonder out loud what good would come of reopening the debate? Personally, I believe that it will just reopen old wounds, re-ignite bad feelings and polarise the community. And the question is, would it solve anything?



I can definitively say that CGI is NOT working on Trierzon, however...that being said...I can say that based on rumours I have heard I feel more confident than anytime since 1983 that we will see Trierzon.

TTYL

Kerry Mould

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Well, my days of taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle. - Mal, Firefly.

I have to annotate, that I own hundreds of pages of official and unofficial stuff written down by many authors. And I only read a small fraction of this. There's so many stuff left to buy that has already been produced... Ok, I miss some things but I can also disclose that I able to manage Gamesessions for two or even three LIVES and I won't run out off ideas and background material
New stuff is always interessting, but instead of waiting for new stuff I could read for months and months all the pdfs I downloaded at Lythia.com and on other homepages

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HARNMASTER.DE - der deutsche HârnMaster-Blog

Getting back on topic...
CGI is just now putting finishing touches on the next release of the Wizard Kings boardgame product, which was about sold out and needed a revision. They expect to shove it out the door mid-week next week (say 28 March).
After that there is one HQ all queued up for them and another 3/4 finished. If they like everything, they can be out pretty quickly (say 15 April), but if they do not like something it will be longer.
The contents are three articles, one of which is the much-ballyhooed Silver Way article. The other the lean on each other and one of them is an exciting new class of article. Since CGI are inherently conservative, they may balk at first, but those who have seen it have been very positive about it so I think it will go. AFAIK the art is done, so my guess for the next HQ is 1 May.
The following two HQs contain 3 or 4 small articles each. Three articles are done and either submitted or ready to be submitted as soon as they release the Silver Way HQ. Two more are very well underway and will be finished by the time the Silver Way HQ is released. One of those two will fill out the next HQ so that HQ will be ready for them the minute they release the Silver Way HQ. Those still need some art, although much is done already.
(I must express sincere appreciation for Richard, who must walk the fine line between sensibly waiting for a PO before doing a job and moving along to keep from holding up an already-slow production schedule. Those interested in fine art should see http://www.thepaintgroup.com/welcome/.)
Then comes Rethem. Planned releases include Kingdom of Rethem, Techen, Arketh/Companions of Roving Doom, Bedenes/Warriors of Mameka, and Menekai/Herpa the Mace. I expect one of the keeps to come first - probably Arketh, then the kingdom, then the rest.
One reason for 3HQ full of small articles is to give the developers time to do a good job on ensuring consistency in a fractious place.
IMO we will be lucky to see Rethem by Christmas.
I do not want to say too much about the small articles because it is possible that CGI will balk at them. There are some new article types that seem very likely to please the community, but CGI gets the final say and until they really dig into them we won't know for sure if they plan to move forward with them.
If CGI rejects these articles, we expect to release them as fanon.

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Heroes should be uncommon. They just happen to be the PCs.

All right. Rethem would be nice xmas present. But IMO release kingdom first keeps and castles then. When I run campaigns in Kaldor, new kingdom would have been nice addition.

The reason for doing Arketh first is because the kingdom is so complex that it takes a long time to make sure it is solid, both reviewing ideas and then doing all the final canon checks and editing. It is helpful to work on a few keeps in parallel to test many of the ideas. But since the keep is so much smaller than the kingdom, I expect it can be kicked out the door while the kingdom editing drags on.
The kingdoms always take longer than we expect, and then people get aggravated waiting for the announced release. While they wait it would be pretty easy to get a keep out the door since we had to do it anyway.

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Heroes should be uncommon. They just happen to be the PCs.

As for why Arketh/Companions of Roving Doom, Bedenes/Warriors of Mameka, and Menekai/Herpa the Mace in particular:

Arketh/Companions of Roving Doom - The CRD are the king's legbreakers, so the order and their base of operations are important to a political campaign. We don't want to say that the king can send a force to Point A in X time without checking the facts on the ground - Arketh is pretty remote by road.

Bedenes/Warriors of Mameka - This order is led by the same guy who is the primate of the church and essentially the mayor of Golotha. These guys are on the edge of nowhere, too, with Kustan ruins and the Kubora in their neighborhood. It helps us to establish the borderlands economy, the tribal relations, and a back-door connection to Golotha.

Menekai/Herpa the Mace - This is a place of mines and slaves and petty despots remote from the crown but not necessarily from its spies. The smoking, clanging source of much of the industry in the kingdom and in the Thard River valley, and close to the border of an ambitious neighbor. We want to keep this as close as possible to the fanon version, but it supports a lot of dependencies on the economics front.

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Heroes should be uncommon. They just happen to be the PCs.

Been aggravated for some time now and anyway I will buy them all. Lorjan Zarainsen feud fuels my campaign for now.

But those keeps and castle + fighting orders are IMO most needed for Rethem.

John - please don't feel obliged to keep any of 'my' Menekai. I made much of the fact (after I threw it into the pot, all unknowing of the consequences), that I'd be horrified if it got in the way of the real thing!

Alun