Just purchased it! On first scanning..very nice as expected in format...I like the special prominence given to the Gurim The 'new' information adds weight to his dark power and influence

Oh and the badges of the mercenary companies are fine...don't see what the fuss is about.

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

Also..have they killed all the hairdressers in the kingdom or what?

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

Yay - finally arrived!
Definitely some well lived-in heads pictured.

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"...blogging is literary pole dancing."
Robin Hobb

[quote="Peter the skald"]don't see what the fuss is about.[/quote]

Its not possible to PRODUCE such badges in the Hârnic society. That is the fuss.

They are artistic impressions of what the badges would look like, not exact reconstructions of what a Harnic badge would be. Richard could have hand drawn and textured each badge to produce an impression of a sewn badge (for example) but that takes a lot of time and budgets are fixed. So you end up with a choice between a simpler to execute illo or nothing. Which would you prefer?

Personally I am not enamoured of the badges (for different reasons) but they are IMO better there than absent. I also recognise The effort put in to produce them, from initial concepts, through roughs, to final version.

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··<SableFox>··
AKA Jonathan M Davidson

Honestly, if I have to choose between badges that look like they are straigth out of WW2 and none at all, I would choose none at all - for any Hârn canon (or fanon) release.

And... once you DO have the icons (which I do like) it is not that much harder to put a shield or wood design under these then one of cloth - perhaps touched once with Gimp to make them look a bit less printed and more painted. Or just leave the designs plain, without any texture. No problem at all.

Actually, they started off plain. The problem with that was it looked too much like heraldry. The entire point of the texture and border is to differentiate it, so using wood (as in shields) wasn't an option (we were specifically trying to make them NOT look like shields). Since they use banners, badges, emblems, etc, it's cloth.

It's a matter of personal preference, obviously. As SableFox said, they are artistic impressions. You are certainly free to picture them more roughly if you like. The point is, you know what the badges look like...whether you want to imagine them as cloth, wood, leather, tattoos...that's up to you.

We will certainly consider your feedback if we produce further mercenary badges. However, at this time there are no plans to change the illustrations.

Here is an early version of one of the merc badges which was deemed too much like heraldry. I agree even though I made it. Where I disagree is that the badges as published are not able to be produced on Harn. That is true if one views them as silk-screened. Not so if they are viewed as embroidered (as they are intended to be). You don't have to like them, but they are certainly possible.

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The Melderyn Campaign

Badges of the Guilds of Hârn are imho a good representation, though these are admittedly all handmade.

I think that something along this line:
[img]http://www.twdesignworks.com/Free/futurecast_l.jpg[/img]
http://www.twdesignworks.com/Free/futurecast_l.jpg

would work, and perhaps there is somewhere out there a filter that creates a similar image out of a sketch. What does not work for me at all is the "printed" look.

I will do some research this weekend and see what I can do with the Wyvern and Gimp. There should be a way to create something medieval looking from a plain image without resorting to drawing it anew.
Naturally "stiching" the emblem will cost detail. I imagine the fully painted badge (on Hârn) as just depicted in the mess hall or on a formal banner, not on the arm (or arms) of each member of a company. The details for these would be, by the very nature of the issue, much reduced.


>Where I disagree is that the badges as published are not able to be produced on Harn.

Regarding the printed badges, I definitely agree to disagree.
I cannot remember any depiction in real history of such stuff before the 20th century, and "fantasy" only goes so far to include modern concepts.
The beauty of Hârn is that it has sufficiently detail that we can pretty good investigate what works and what not. We can certainly identify the guild and probably even the artisan who would be able to do this, so I would be interested to hear who would provide these to the mercenary companies in Rethem, using what technics. My knowlede is far from exhaustive (both for Hârn and real history) and I am prone to make errors, so I am really interested in why you think these can be produced on Hârn.

Well, I think we covered that earlier in this thread, and for me that's good. These are intended to look like fabric - for your money Richard was unsuccessful there. Others see it differently. Perhaps another thread can pick it up rather than derail this one.

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The Melderyn Campaign

Well, you could view AxelSchudak as giving extensive feedback here so is technically not de-railing...

I have my own view on the 'rightness' of Harn things...

1) No hesitation in showing (such as Richard Luschek drawings, local maps and floor plans etc)
2) Hesitation in showing (maps with hexes on; these mercenary badges etc)
3) Do not want to show (other than for conversation). (Computery maps..like some in Asolade hundred for example.)

And the new Rethem is therefore replete with things I would eagerly show; and therefore potentially of great use to me.

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

I still have not read in depth..but just to chime in with others: the decision not to delineate the Gurim's..resources is a master stroke and an adventure in itself..

and is Tormau modelled on Marlon Brando late in his career??

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

Bingo!

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The Melderyn Campaign

thought so!

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

Indeed, and perhaps he means to give King Chafin III "an offer he can't refuse."

Anyone want to hazard a guess on who Jasyph Sayorsaxe is channelling?

Fred Trueman in latter years

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

Lord Palmerston

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

...and the gentleman in the dark cowl wins a Peonian head!

Richard googled 'Chancellor' and there he was.

And surely Baron Bothal Yonan of Quiso is Brion James....?

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

Already I have revealed too much ... the Shades of Luschek chase me to enforce silence ...

Finally finished my first read through of the new Rethem - another great job guys. I am looking forward to comparing it against the old stuff - to me it feels as thought the King's faction has been carefully beefed up & fleshed out to provide a more even match for Tormau?

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"...blogging is literary pole dancing."
Robin Hobb

I thought I should weigh in on this topic. Thanks for the comments and feedback.

Sorry some of you did not like the badges. That was my quick attempt to make them funkier. I thought an easy way would be to scan in some fabric and layer it on top. Apparently it did not go over. You win some you lose some.
I recently set up a blog about illustration so I could do some "Literary Pole Dancing". Some of you Ole' Timers may recognize the background
.
Have a look and let me know what you think. The most recent post is about the merc badges with some images of how they looked before the texture. You could print them out from the blog if you are like. There is also two versions of one of the badges before we settled on the one to use. Check out the blog, follow it if you want updates, comment or ask questions if you have any. Thanks.

http://luschekillustrationblog.blogspot.com/

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Richard Luschek
RPG Illustrator
http://www.richardluschek.com/

I must say that I had NO problem with the merc badges. NONE. Frankly, I am somewhat mystified as to why some folks think it is such a big deal. It's not like these badges are a vital part of the Rethem product. If you hate them so much, ignore them or tear the pages out.

As to whether or not such badges are possible to produce with medieval technology... well, I am no expert in medieval textiles, but I have seen friends perform true works of art with nothing but some fabric, a needle, and colored thread. I could easily believe such things could be made with period technology.

Personally, I would have been upset with the badges of mercenary companies that are represented as heraldry, which should be confined to the gentle born. The fabric badges turned out to be a fine solution, in my opinion.

As for someone giving up all future Harn products over such an issue... well... I said earlier that I was mystified.

For those producing Harn products, please keep doing the excellent job that you always have! And thank you for keeping my favorite game world alive!

- Ed

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"Your logic is flawless. But that doesn't mean you're right." - Tedd Good

What a refreshing change.