Yes.

Given the Harnic pantheon, I think it is very likely that laypersons will at times offer prayers to gods other than their principal one. I've never really liked the idea of selecting gods based on "class" (peasants=Peoni; nobility=Larani; merchants=Halea, etc). Instead, it is as you suggest...more of a polytheism than a pantheism, with people offering prayers to gods based on their perceived needs of the moment. The yeoman is a prime example - praying to Larani on the eve of a battle, to Peoni at harvest-time, and to Halea on the day he schleps his produce to market.

(In this same vein, Rebecca offered the example of Thardans even making offerings to the "evil" gods on their special days as a way to keep their demons from coming around and causing trouble.)

I stay within the HM piety-point system, though, with a running tally of the PP for each deity the PC prays to or worships (as suggested on page Religion 4 in HM1). And, obviously, this system is only open to laypersons, not priests or members of religious orders.



I let them keep those invocations, but their success is not guaranteed. And, like miracles, the priest will surely claim that any success was the result of the invocation while the skeptic might point to other reasons. In any case, I would have the priests continue to believe in them and use them, even if the GM knows they are ineffectual.

_________________
::Age doesn't always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone -- all by itself.::

I do the same as well. Anyone can pray to any god any time and in fact do. Most people even pray to Morgath in times of death; "Oh great lord of death, please release so and so's soul from your realm...".

I wouldn't use invocations either if I used HM. I let priests use Ritual Magic in GURPS which is really subtle and never could create "proof" of divine intervention or magic.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Sophia here. Class-oriented deities are rather too "unrealistic" for my tastes, and I'm inclined to opt for a more polytheistic approach, where possible. I would go so far as to include priests in that as well -- in the polytheistic societies I know something about, even the priest of, say, Apollo, would offer worship to (and therefore have piety with regard to) others in the pantheon. As both Sophia and Caelyndd point out, this offers a way to make the "evil" deities fit.

I, too, use separate PP totals per HM1.

The problem here, of course, is that the canonical descriptions push heavily toward side-by-side monotheisms that may tolerate some other monotheisms, rather than true polytheism (to some extent reinforced by, e.g., the rules in HarnManor, or the rigid church structures). There's a need to flesh out the creaky framework. Religion in Harn publications has always been rather thin on the ground (where are the myriad temples, shrines, and holy sites?), and someone opting for a polytheistic approach (or for that matter even a developed quasi-monotheism) needs to place many more such locations and opportunities for worship. If there really are hundreds of demigods and lesser divinities, where are their places of worship?

That being said, I think you could work up a justification for a monotheistic drive on the part of worshippers of, say, Larani, if you wanted one.

You may also want to consider is syncretism; I wouldn't be surprised of Ivinians visiting Azeryan or Karejia were told that Sarajin is really Agrik.

Finally, I allow invocations (per HM1) without much concern. After all, as Sophia points out, they don't have a guaranteed success (and, indeed, I wouldn't allow the player access to the mechanics). In addition, the effects described in the rules are merely guidelines for the GM, to be varied as circumstances dictate.

Another point that has come up several times is captured by Caelyndd's statement:

There appears to be a feeling that spectacular miracles somehow create irrefutable proof of the existence of the deity involved and therefore shouldn't be allowed in a "low magic" environment. Most of us would describe "the real world" as just such a low-magic (or no-magic) environment, yet miraculous healings, for example, are attested for many religions (even today) without their constituting irresistible proof to others. See much medieval hagiography, but also, for a non-Christian example that comes to mind immediately, the life of Apollonius of Tyana. Healing springs, oracles, visions, laying on of hands, etc. can all be abundant without offering "proof."

For some good discussions of the social role of miracles and holy people (which can provide some excellent suggestions for game play, too), I'd recommend starting with Peter Brown, Society and the Holy in Late Antiquity and The Cult of the Saints: Its Rise and Function in Latin Christianity, and Raymond Van Dam, Leadership and Community in Late Antique Gaul and Saints and Their Miracles in Late Antique Gaul.

Harry Butler

_________________
*I'm seeking a game or players in southern New Jersey*