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 Post subject: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:25 am 
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Villein
Villein

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:27 am
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Location: Brunswick, OH
I was wondering how people handle a Lady granting her favor for a Joust. Specifically, is it granted for single joust, or a day in multiple day events? That is, can a knight have multiple lady's favors over a multiday joust? And if a Lady's knight is eliminated, can/should she give it to a knight still in competition? And lastly, how should a knight handle it when he faces a knight who has been given favor by his liege's daughter (is it chivalrous to take a fall?)


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 Post subject: Re: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:18 am 
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Knight
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I would expect that a lady's favor would be for the full event, not just one joust or day. If the knight loses, it is more important for the lady to stay "constant" to her favored knight. The favor is not just about the tilts. The knight should be acting to bring honor to the lady in all his activities during the event - singing, dancing, and general behavior, as well as other contests that might arise. The tilts are only part of the festivities.

To "take a fall" is almost never acceptable. It is an insult to the other knight, as it implies that he didn't have a chance to win. And jousting is justified as being preparation for battle, so it should always be taken seriously. The superior knight should fight fair and hard. Should he win he should praise his opponent for his courage. Should he lose he should praise his opponent for his skill.


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 Post subject: Re: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:23 am 
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Villein
Villein

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I believe that is one of the issues that you will come across, not enough familial connections in write ups. I often change the names in write ups to reflect a more clan integrated society. You should see several clans within a village and region reflecting the clan structure.
Caldeth


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 Post subject: Re: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:54 am 
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Knight
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wylie wrote:
I was wondering how people handle a Lady granting her favor for a Joust. Specifically, is it granted for single joust, or a day in multiple day events? That is, can a knight have multiple lady's favors over a multiday joust? And if a Lady's knight is eliminated, can/should she give it to a knight still in competition? And lastly, how should a knight handle it when he faces a knight who has been given favor by his liege's daughter (is it chivalrous to take a fall?)


My answers would be:
The lady grants her favor for the whole tournament, win or lose. Taking a fall is not chivalrous, IMO.

I'm currently running my PCs through the Vemionshire Tournament from The Earl's Progress. Here's what I gave them regarding favors (which is modified from what's in canon):

One of the most important challenges for an unmarried male knight at a Laranian tournament is to obtain a favor from a lady to whom he is attracted. The value of such a token is entirely sentimental, although it can inspire some knights to fight more confidently, or give rise to furious jealousy in others who had been vying for the attention of the same lady.

The origins of the custom are believed to lie in the Parable of Saint Tynnas. According to the parable, as Tynnas prepared to leave his family and lands to go off to war, his wife cut off a lock of her hair and presented it to him, making him swear to return it to her. Having thus vowed to return, Tynnas fought bravely, overcoming great hardships and peril to fulfill his promise. With the rise of tournaments and the flowering of chivalry, the custom has become more structured, but the notion that a knight bearing the token of a lady will fight harder that one who fights only for himself, has gained considerable popularity.

Favors typically range from an impersonal Peonian-style scarf to a more personal token such as a glove, detachable sleeve, veil, lock of hair, or even a garter. A knight can tie the favor to the end of his lance, helmet or arm, or place it under the tunic and close to his heart.

Any knight (or, in the case of the Squires' Joust, any squire) may request a lady's favor by publically vowing to fight in her honor. He may not request, nor carry, the favor of more than one lady, although if he is refused, he is then free to ask another lady.

It is considered in poor taste for a lady to offer her favor unless it is requested, but she is free to give it, or refuse it, as she pleases. She may even require some small task or service of the knight before granting it. This may be an effort to choose between rivals, or simply playing "hard to get", depending on the the personalities involved, and can occasionally get out of control. However, there is nothing to prevent a lady from sending a servant or friend to be sure a knight knows that his offer to fight in her honor would be met favorably, should he choose to make it. There are several comedic tales of servants caught up in such romantic intrigues.

Married knights, or their designated champions, always carry the favor of their own lady. If a married knight were to dishonor his lady by vowing to fight for another's honor, he would likely be expelled from the tournament, and possibly challenged to a duel, besides. Likewise, if a married lady grants her favor to any but her husband or his champion, she commits social suicide. Such things are simply not done.

It is considered acceptable for an unmarried son to carry the favor of a widowed mother, or for a brother to carry the favor of an unmarried or widowed sister.

Knights may not request a favor until after the opening ceremony of the tournament, though a lady may delay giving her favor (or refusing it) until the start of the joust. Thus, some knights do not end up carrying the favor of any lady.

A knight is expected to offer to return a lady's favor at the end of the tournament. Whether she accepts it back or bids him to keep it can either be seen as a reflection of romantic interest, the sentimental value of the favor, or possibly just the degree to which it has become soiled by dirt, blood, or sweat during the contest.

Should a knight win a prize at the tournament, the lady whose favor he carries has the task of presenting it at the celebration feast, and traditionally a prominent place at the dance.


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 Post subject: Re: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Villein
Villein

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:11 am
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Sorry...posted in the wring thread.
caldeth


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 Post subject: Re: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:11 am 
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Villein
Villein

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:27 am
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Location: Brunswick, OH
Follow up question - is it bad form to request the favor of married lady whose husband is not competing? Such as your liege's wife if your liege is not competing.


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 Post subject: Re: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:36 am 
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Knight
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I would think it would be an unusual circumstance for a liege lord to not compete, either directly or via a champion. If a knight is designated as a champion (surrogate) of a particular lord, then they could carry the favor of that lord's lady without scandal (in fact, it would be expected). Outside of that, however, I can't think of a circumstance where it would be seen as acceptable to ask for the favor of another man's wife.


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 Post subject: Re: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:38 am 
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Knight
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Given that in Hârn there are some female knights, would they carry the favor of some unmarried man? :D
Or, some unmarried lady's favor? 8O

_________________
Laboro diem, carpe noctem.


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 Post subject: Re: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:30 am 
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Villein
Villein

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:27 am
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Location: Brunswick, OH
Dogberry, there's a can of worms. Not even sure what favor she would get from a man? If he is a knight, perhaps entering the tilt with some piece of his knightly accoutrement? His spurs maybe? My first thought was his shield ("May this protect you, my lady") but then it would have his coat of arms on it, which may cause confusion.

And if she wins, does her man become the Queen of Love & Beauty?

Maybe to avoid these issues, she is encouraged to either not take a favor, or take one from a Lady.


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 Post subject: Re: A Lady's Favor
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:08 am 
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Knight
Knight

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:56 am
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A lady knight would take the favor of a lady, of course. The favor is not generally a sign of romantic intent, after all. I could see a lady knight taking the favor of anyone that she cared to honor but who was not likely to attract the attention of the men. Perhaps a dowager, or even her liege's young daughter - whose father isn't quite ready to advertise the girl as marriageable.


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