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	<title>Comments on: The Philosophy of Pvârism</title>
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		<title>By: Xris</title>
		<link>http://www.lythia.com/2009/10/pvarism/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Xris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lythia.com/?p=493#comment-107</guid>
		<description>I think one needs to keep religion apart from the Shek-Pvar and Alchemists. Actually, their goals belong to two different categories:

1) Arcanist (Shek-Pvar, Alchemists) try to gain understanding (and thereby power). They may want to help themselves out of their miserable situation of being constraint in their perception of the true nature of the things and how they are related. It is not required, that the goal is &quot;eternal life&quot; (look at the real world bhuddists). Arcanists  have developed some ways to help with this task. But following the path is not *required* to be the meaning of their (or any other) existence. It is some kind of option.

2) Believers first of all have some teleological perspective. They are not required  to &quot;reach eternal life&quot;, but they try to fulfill their meaning of life, that is somehow defined or revelated by a divine entity. Motivation may be a hope for some &quot;reward&quot; - or the fear of &quot;punishment&quot; if they don&#039;t meet the requirements. That does not necessarily rely on any expectation of &quot;gaining eternal life&quot;. But if you believe in some higher being, that has set your path or goals, you have no option to chose whether they are really relevant or not.

There is no reason, why arcanists should not be (also) religious. You see - in canon there are mages on Yashain (beeing Kethira&#039;s &quot;after world&quot;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one needs to keep religion apart from the Shek-Pvar and Alchemists. Actually, their goals belong to two different categories:</p>
<p>1) Arcanist (Shek-Pvar, Alchemists) try to gain understanding (and thereby power). They may want to help themselves out of their miserable situation of being constraint in their perception of the true nature of the things and how they are related. It is not required, that the goal is &#8220;eternal life&#8221; (look at the real world bhuddists). Arcanists  have developed some ways to help with this task. But following the path is not *required* to be the meaning of their (or any other) existence. It is some kind of option.</p>
<p>2) Believers first of all have some teleological perspective. They are not required  to &#8220;reach eternal life&#8221;, but they try to fulfill their meaning of life, that is somehow defined or revelated by a divine entity. Motivation may be a hope for some &#8220;reward&#8221; &#8211; or the fear of &#8220;punishment&#8221; if they don&#8217;t meet the requirements. That does not necessarily rely on any expectation of &#8220;gaining eternal life&#8221;. But if you believe in some higher being, that has set your path or goals, you have no option to chose whether they are really relevant or not.</p>
<p>There is no reason, why arcanists should not be (also) religious. You see &#8211; in canon there are mages on Yashain (beeing Kethira&#8217;s &#8220;after world&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: peter the skald</title>
		<link>http://www.lythia.com/2009/10/pvarism/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>peter the skald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lythia.com/?p=493#comment-106</guid>
		<description>&quot;So there you have it. Priests, alchemists and shèk-pvâr all have the same purpose, struggle to achieve the same goal. They just do it in different ways.&quot;

I would argue that everyone shares this purpose (elightenment and eternal life). It is just that these lovers of sophistication are particularly adept at deifying their own labyrintine path :)

The crafstman knows his path to immortality lies in mastery of his craft and transmission of this knowledge....

The lowly peasant knows eternal life comes from the seed in the ground and his wifes belly...

However, such base types surrender to the metaphor much more easily; not being confounded by  the maze of complexities that is the favoured pastime of the wise. But then, ignorance is bliss.

Ergo; for me, mages etc are to be in part admired and in part pitied. They have the lonely torturous mountain path to enlightenment:  whilst most take the direct ,  well paved, and busy short route on the valley floor. 

Part of me thinks Philosophers eulogise their path so much because they are pissed at having worked so hard to achieve what the rest seem to manage easily!!!! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So there you have it. Priests, alchemists and shèk-pvâr all have the same purpose, struggle to achieve the same goal. They just do it in different ways.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would argue that everyone shares this purpose (elightenment and eternal life). It is just that these lovers of sophistication are particularly adept at deifying their own labyrintine path <img src='http://www.lythia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The crafstman knows his path to immortality lies in mastery of his craft and transmission of this knowledge&#8230;.</p>
<p>The lowly peasant knows eternal life comes from the seed in the ground and his wifes belly&#8230;</p>
<p>However, such base types surrender to the metaphor much more easily; not being confounded by  the maze of complexities that is the favoured pastime of the wise. But then, ignorance is bliss.</p>
<p>Ergo; for me, mages etc are to be in part admired and in part pitied. They have the lonely torturous mountain path to enlightenment:  whilst most take the direct ,  well paved, and busy short route on the valley floor. </p>
<p>Part of me thinks Philosophers eulogise their path so much because they are pissed at having worked so hard to achieve what the rest seem to manage easily!!!! <img src='http://www.lythia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Xris</title>
		<link>http://www.lythia.com/2009/10/pvarism/comment-page-1/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>Xris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lythia.com/?p=493#comment-105</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing these thoughts.

I have some concerns about the meaning of &quot;eternal life&quot;, for the posting does not differentiate here. However, I think it is necessary to do so.

A religious person believes, that its existence depends on some other - usually personalized - entity. To meet with that entitie&#039;s wishes is the meaning of the believer&#039;s very existence. It is not required to be a - literally - &quot;eternal live&quot; or a concrete afterlive to reach. After death, the personal existence may cease, but that might be OK as long as during lifetime, the conduct of life, thought etc. met with the divine expectations and therefore were &quot;meaningful&quot;. E.g. the ancient jews did not believe in &quot;eternal live&quot;, but tried to meet the expectations of god, because that was what they thought mankind and everyone was created for. Believers may accept, that they have only bounded capabilities to reach their goal (meet with the godly expectations) and rely on divine assistance (like rules to follow, etc.) or mercy and grace, that overcome their incompletion. Religion always implies a teleological perspective.

For a Buddhist, and maybe for an alchemist or Shek Pvar, the goal to reach might be &quot;total insight&quot;, &quot;becoming one with all&quot; or &quot;gaining total freedom&quot;. It is all about getting rid of ties, binding you to corporal existence, hindering you to perceive clarity. They rely on their own powers to overcome obstacles on their way and may have developed methods to help them do so. 
What they do not do is dealing with is the teleological perspective, any potential &quot;meaning&quot;. To them, this would be a completely different category. 

An intriguing question is, whether the principles of Pvarism and religion necessarily and /or practically contradict each other (personally, I don&#039;t believe so). 
From a &quot;canonical&quot; point of view - there are Shek-Pvar on Yashain - but what does that mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing these thoughts.</p>
<p>I have some concerns about the meaning of &#8220;eternal life&#8221;, for the posting does not differentiate here. However, I think it is necessary to do so.</p>
<p>A religious person believes, that its existence depends on some other &#8211; usually personalized &#8211; entity. To meet with that entitie&#8217;s wishes is the meaning of the believer&#8217;s very existence. It is not required to be a &#8211; literally &#8211; &#8220;eternal live&#8221; or a concrete afterlive to reach. After death, the personal existence may cease, but that might be OK as long as during lifetime, the conduct of life, thought etc. met with the divine expectations and therefore were &#8220;meaningful&#8221;. E.g. the ancient jews did not believe in &#8220;eternal live&#8221;, but tried to meet the expectations of god, because that was what they thought mankind and everyone was created for. Believers may accept, that they have only bounded capabilities to reach their goal (meet with the godly expectations) and rely on divine assistance (like rules to follow, etc.) or mercy and grace, that overcome their incompletion. Religion always implies a teleological perspective.</p>
<p>For a Buddhist, and maybe for an alchemist or Shek Pvar, the goal to reach might be &#8220;total insight&#8221;, &#8220;becoming one with all&#8221; or &#8220;gaining total freedom&#8221;. It is all about getting rid of ties, binding you to corporal existence, hindering you to perceive clarity. They rely on their own powers to overcome obstacles on their way and may have developed methods to help them do so.<br />
What they do not do is dealing with is the teleological perspective, any potential &#8220;meaning&#8221;. To them, this would be a completely different category. </p>
<p>An intriguing question is, whether the principles of Pvarism and religion necessarily and /or practically contradict each other (personally, I don&#8217;t believe so).<br />
From a &#8220;canonical&#8221; point of view &#8211; there are Shek-Pvar on Yashain &#8211; but what does that mean?</p>
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